vendredi 22 juillet 2011

Partie majoritaire (fin)


Voici le dénouement tant attendu!



56. Kf5
56.Kf5 (90%)
56.Kf6 (7%)
56.Kf7 (3%)
30 votes cast.

rigamagician :
Yes, 56.Kf5 intending to meet 56.Bxh6? with 57.Kf6 with mate in a few more moves. If they move the bishop elsewhere, we can chase it with our rook, and then bring the rook to the sixth rank aiming for the position in the Averbakh diagram.

classicmusic0505 :
I'm keeping the notation of this game because the endgame is just too amezing!

rigamagician :
I was worried there for a little while, but we do finally seem to be out of the woods. It has been a very interesting game. Team France has played well after their somewhat dubious opening.

dschaef2 :
This is quite the fascinating end game.
And I wikipedia-ed Averbakh, apparently he is the current oldest living grandmaster. Very cool.

56… Bd2
56...Offer Draw (63%)
56...Bd2 (83%)
56...Bxh6 (17%)
8 votes cast.

breizatao :
Oui P.-A., on peut très bien proposer la nulle. Cela ne nous coûte rien. Ici on peut jouer 56...Bd2
Mais bon sang! arrêtez de jouer Fxh6, c'est perdant pour nous.

alain007 :
55...Kf5 me semble quand même un coup gagnant (en un certain nombre de coups il est vrai, ..).
56...Bd2 ou 56...Bd4 doivent mener au même résultat. On peut aussi proposer nulle pas de problème. A mon avis ils doivent savoir gagner cela.

hicetnunc :
Proposer nulle ici, ce n'est pas très correct quand même : nous pensons que la position est objectivement perdante, et pour l'instant, ils n'ont pas montré de signe de grande confusion sur le plan à jouer.
Je préférerais réserver la proposition de nulle à un peu plus tard, par exemple s'ils essayent un plan de gain qui rate : là ils douteront peut-être un peu et ce sera le bon moment.

57. Rd1
57.Reject Draw (94%)
57.Rd1 (88%)
57.Kg4 (3%)
57.Rg1 (3%)
57.Kf6 (3%)
57.Rh2 (3%)

rigamagician :
57.Rd1, hit Submit, wait for the page to refresh, and then click Vote to reject draw. They really must be joking! It is kind of rude to offer a draw in a lost position.

dschaef2 :
Lol draw offer. Perhaps they don't see the win? Which I would find highly unlikely. I agree it is rather rude.

rigamagician :
Repost Averbakh's Comprehensive Chess Endings vol. 2
56. Kf5 Bd2 57. h6 Be3 ( 57. Bxh6 58. Kf6 Be3 59. Kf7 ) 58. Rg7+ Kxh6 59. Rg6+ Kh7 ( 59. Kh5 60. Rg3 Kh6 61. Rxe3 ) 60. Kf6 Bd4+ 61. Kf7 Ba7 62. Ra6 Bb8 63. Rb6 Bc7 64. Rb7 Be5 65. Rb5 Bf4 66. Rh5+ Bh6 67. Rh4

Possible continuations from our current game position. 57.Rd1, Submit and then Vote to reject draw.
57. Rd1 Be3 ( 57. Bxh6 58. Rd7+ Kg8 59. Kg6 Kf8 60. Kxh6 ) 58. Rd6 Bc1 ( 58. Bxh6 59. Rd7+ Kg8 60. Kg6 Kf8 61. Kxh6 ) 59. Rf6 Be3 ( 59. Bxh6 60. Rf7+ Bg7 61. Kg5 Kg8 62. Kg6 ) 60. Kg4 Bxh6 61. Kh5 Be3 62. Rf7+ Kg8 63. Kg6

k337lee :
Riga, sorry about the last post. There are many more reasons why you are better than me, other than being sublime. But in this case, my directness says, "Fuck you France!" The draw offer is insulting. REJECT! So everyone, please listen to Riga for technical move suggestions, but listen to me for emotional ones. Screw France!

Sorry, Riga. I agree with your diagram analysis. But more to the point is to tell France that they suck like their soccer team!

rigamagician :
I've been mulling over whether to post something to Public Comments, but I think the best revenge will be to demonstrate the win. It is kind of tactless though to offer a draw when they are so much material down, and their king is trapped in the corner with no way to escape.

hic2482w :
Oh, and um, k337lee, we really shouldn't be making soccer jokes, as I hear Frenchies get a bit touchy on that subject. Plus, ours didn't even make it in!
If we beat Argentina in qualifying, we would actually be in the world cup.
How surprising is that?
But no.they crushed us 5-1...

JDudar :
hic, actually for WC qualifying we made it to the third round (finishing last in our pool). We would have had to beat out either Honduras or Mexico for a spot in the fourth round of qualifying and then either finish in the top three of the fourth round (versus US, Costa Rica, el Salvador, Trinidad and Tobego, and either Honduras or Mexico) or finish fourth and beat Uruguay to get the play-off spot.

rigamagician :
If we can beat Team France here, we will make it to the next round of the World Cup.

Lamneth :
IF?!?

classicmusic0505 :
57.Rg1

rigamagician :
Lamneth, sorry. I mean when we beat Team France.

57… Be3
57...Be3 (88%)
57...Offer Draw (25%)
57...Bxh6 (13%)
8 votes cast.

PierAnge :
ha. ça bouge!! Bxh6! Rd7? Bg7?

simplechess :
Surtout pas 57...Bxh6? 58.Rd7+ Kg8 (ou 58...Bg7 59.Kg5! suivi de 60.Kg6) 59.Kg6 et c'est fini tout de suite.
Par contre il faut rester sur la diagonale c1-h6, donc 57.Fe3. Malheureusement ça reste gagnant pour les blancs, mais Fe3 est le coup qui résiste le mieux. Tous les autres coups perdent très vite.

ferit :
Ils ont refusé la nulle, c'est en effet un peu délicat de proposer une nulle en position perdante, d'un autre côté, une nulle qualifie les 2 équipes et si nous faisons de la résistance cela peut bloquer tous le championnat pendant des mois. Que faire ?

alain007 :
OK donc pour jouer le meilleur coup: 57...Be3.
Concernant la proposition de nulle.. Ferit porrait essayer de proposer "un deal" à l'équipe adverse, en leur disant que ça peut encore durer..disons..20 à 25*2*3 = 120 à 150 jours ..???!!??
et en argumentant sur le fait que les deux équipes sont qualifiées en cas de nulle..
qu'en pensez-vous ?

breizatao :
Oui, on fera de la résistance mais sinon l'idée d'Alain me semble bonne.

58. Rd6
58.Rd6 (93%)
58.Rd3 (4%)
58.Rd8 (4%)
28 votes cast.

dschaef2 :
Atleast they didn't offer a draw again. 58. Rd6, following Riga's line.

rigamagician :
I was half expecting them to resign. Anyway, it shouldn't be too long now. 58.Rd6 followed by Rf6 and then Kg4-h5 with mate not far off.

58... Bxh6?
58...Bxh6 (71%)
58...Offer Draw (25%)
58...Bc1 (29%)
8 votes cast.

simplechess :
58...Fxh6 perd toujours tout de suite à cause de Td7+ suivie de Rg6. Le seul coup qui resiste un peu c'est 58...Fc1.

59. Rd7
59.Rd7 (100%)
34 votes cast.

Daws74 :
Following riga's previously researched line. 59.Rd7 Kg8 60.Kg6 Kf8 61. Kxh6 winning their bishop and on the road to victory.

dschaef2 :
Rd7+ winning the bishop and the game :)

rigamagician :
Yep, 59.Rd7+ puts them away for the night.
59. Rd7+ Kg8 ( 59. Bg7 60. Kg5 Kg8 61. Kg6 Kf8 62. Rxg7 ) 60. Kg6 Kf8 ( 60. Bf8 61. Rd8 Kh8 62. Rxf8# ) 61. Kxh6

tobypanzer :
thanks for the end game lesson, riga!

rigamagician :
Yes, this was a very interesting endgame. They were playing very strongly for a while there, but 58.Bxh6? would appear to be a mistake saving us from having to play out Averbakh's long maneuver chasing their bishop more with our rook.

rigamagician :
Incidentally, in the next round of the World Cup, it looks like we are going to be facing off against Team Slovakia, Team Italia, Indian Marauders, Team Catalonia (who knocked out Team Romania), Team Bangladesh, Team Russia, American Group, Team England, Team Mexico, Team Australia, Team Slovenija, Team Iran and Team Iraq.

JDudar :
I assume we're not playing against all of them, but it's groups again, right?

rigamagician :
I'm sure Ko7 will break it up into smaller groups again. Some of the other games have yet to finish, so the next round might not start for a little while yet.

classicmusic0505 :
Forced mate in 10 after 59.Rd7+

59… Bg7
59...Bg7 (83%)
59...Offer Draw (50%)
59...Kg8 (17%)
6 votes cast.

breizatao :
C'est cuit.

60.Kg5
60.Kg5 (100%)
60.Reject Draw (100%)
35 votes cast.

rigamagician :
If they try 59...Bg7, we play 60.Kg5 forcing their king to retreat and then play Kg6.

spearingdragon :
You heard riga,60. Kg5 and VOTE TO REJECT DRAW.

dschaef2:
Do they really not see the win or are they just incredibly rude?

classicmusic0505 :
lol, this is a win for Canada, why are they insulting us with a draw?

thefox31 :
My guess is that their best players have abandoned the game, and the less experienced players left don't see that it's hopeless.

rigamagician :
Yeah, their best players all must have left because the mate is kind of obvious now. 60.Kg5 and then Vote to Reject Draw.
60. Kg5 Kg8 ( 60. Kh8 61. Kg6 Kg8 62. Rd8+ Bf8 63. Ra8 Kh8 64. Rxf8# ) 61. Kg6 Kf8 ( 61. Bh6 62. Kxh6 ) 62. Rxg7 Ke8 63. Kf6 Kd8 64. Ke6 Kc8 65. Kd6 Kb8 66. Kc6 Ka8 67. Kb6 Kb8 68. Rg8#

player03 :
yep, this game is definently drawn! Nevertheless, Kg5 and REJECT DRAW

jonathanasdf :
definitely drawn? ????

hic2482w :
Yeah, for sure this game is drawn. I've never trusted the Nalimov Tablebases, which say that Kg5 is a win. Nevertheless, I'm a sheep, and i'll climb aboard the "reject draw" bandwagon!

hic2482w :
60.Kg5 (100%)
60.Reject Draw (100%)
The unanimous votes.

mikehaggert :
There is no way we could blunder this into a draw. Kg5 forces either Kg8 or Kh8 from them. Our next move would be Kg6 in either case. They then pull the bishop to safety and lose the game to Rd8 or they lose the bishop to Kf8 and I'm sure we can pull off the win with K+R against K. A draw now would only result from our blunder.
chrispret
Rxg7 anyone?

jonathanasdf :
You never know. For some reason our king could be inexplicably drawn to A1 and decide to march over there for some reason.

60… (1-0)
60...RESIGN (50%)
60...Kg8 (50%)
60...Offer Draw (20%)
5 votes cast.

rigamagician :
I think they were hoping to win the tournament, and are still in shock.

Daws74 :
Unbelievable. even i can see this one clearly.

rigamagician :
They did play the whole latter half of the game very strongly, except for a couple of minor slips: 47.Kf5?! and 58.Bxh6?! No doubt they were expecting a draw here at least.

bbrout :
Truly beautiful end game guys. Beautiful end game.

rigamagician :
Even I wasn't sure if we would win this one, but our endgame plan with the h- and g-pawn push worked out really well. Great work, guys.

Daws74 :
Yes, that surely was an amazing end game. Look at the position after move 35, our rook in front of our pawns and they also have 2 connected pawns and a N&B vs our R. Very impressive to pull out a win from there. I learned a lot from the discussion in this end game. Thank you riga and others who contributed.

chrispret :
Hey, after a certain point I get a kick out of going all the way to a mate. So I for one appreciate the fact that they didn't resign here. If they did resign a couple of moves earlier though, it is a different story, no kicks to be had yet
Of course, they will probably resign on this move, but I'll gladly finish the game if you guys want to move on, even I can't mess it up anymore

player03 :
totally.. lost position for us, I think we should vote to resign hehe

mistermax :
I still think we would have won a lot faster with 1.f4

rigamagician :
mistermax, so that's why this game took so long to win!

mistermax :
Seriously though, that was an tremendously well played end game - very tenacious. I know that OTB I would have accepted a draw about 10 moves ago - I never would have thought it possible to get a full point from a K+R vs K+B ending. (i realize our h-pawn was crucial since it drew black over to the edge of the board)

chrispret :
I have to agree with Mistermax. And I think riga deserves a big thanks for providing the analysis that lead us to this point

rigamagician :
A lot of different people pitched in on this one: k337lee, Talj, Jochem, jonathanasdf, etc. A tremendous job by everyone. Great work, people.

MarkMcCreary:
This was a great victory. One of our best so far, I think.
I think they offered draws before because they just didn't want to lose. We have faced the same predicament a time or two so I can understand them. If they don't resign now, then, well, may God forgive the wrath of bbrout.

rigamagician :
Has Team Canada ever been in a losing position? Have we ever offered a draw? I can't think of any examples offhand. Hmm.

bbrout :
We could comment on a few embarrassing moments in French world history, but that would be unbecoming of us.

rigamagician :
The real turning point in this game came on move 34, when k337lee posted what he hoped was a win for white. That specific line didn't quite work, but it got me thinking about what conditions we would need to win a R+P vs. B+2P's. They didn't really make any obvious mistakes for quite a while there, so I suspect that we had a won game right out of the opening even with our Ng4 and Bxa7 adventures. It did take some very precise play though to prove it.
Now, answering my own questions, we had a lost position out of the opening in the Sicilian Venice Attack game against Team England, although we eventually managed to turn that one around, and win.
We offered draws in our recent games with Team France and Team Europe in both cases when perpetual check became obvious. I'm pretty sure though that we've never offered a draw in a lost position.

PawnAvalanche :
!!! I just saw that. Beautiful!




Oui, l'équipe du Canada, emmené par son leader Rigamagician, a été magnifique. C'était une équipe solidaire. On ne peut pas dire la même chose des Français dont la plupart des joueurs ont joué en solo sans prendre gare au travail effectué par son leader simplechess. On ne peut pas rivaliser contre la multitude égoiste. Nous avons perdu notre place en finale à cause d'une poignée de types qui ne comprenaient rien aux Echecs... mais c'est ainsi, c'est la dure loi du "Vote Chess".
Le PCG joué ici était très intéressant!

(FIN)

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