dimanche 26 juin 2011

Partie majoritaire (16)

Je rassure nos amis lecteurs, cette partie interminable a bien une fin...

45.h5 (100%)
34 votes cast.

They are threatening to play ...c5-c4, so we are going to need to keep their king back, but I think we can just barely make it in time, starting 45.h5: 45. h5 c5 46. Kd3 Bd4 47. Rf1 Kd5 48. Rf5+ Ke6 49. Rf4 Ke5 ( 49. Kd5? 50. Rxd4+! ) 50. Rf8 Kd5 51. Rd8+ Ke6 52. h6

I trust your analysis here more than mine. I can't stand these kind of endgames.

How do we deal with 45.h5 b2 46.Kd3 Bg7 Kc2 Kf7. It looks like a deadlock.

Endgames are less fun when you're on the losing side.

mister(mad)max, not sure what the Magician would have to say, but I think 48. Rg5!, threatening Rc5 winning the c-pawn. After 48.Bd4 to prevent Rc5, 49. h6! I think leaves us in a won position.

Sorry if I am missing something but how is 49.? 50.Rxd4+! good for us?
But 45.h5 looks good.

After cxd4, Kd2! wins.

mistermax, 45.h5 b2 46.h6 would prevent them from playing .Bg7, and then 46.Bc3 47.Kd3 Bf6 48.Kc2 Kf7 49.h7 Bg7 50.Kb1 c5 51.Rg4 puts them in zugzwang, does it not?
ezr611, we queen our h-pawn. 45. h5 c5 ( 45. b2 46. h6 Bc3 47. Kd3 Bf6 48. Kc2 Kf7 49. h7 Bg7 50. Kb1 c5 51. Rg4 ) 46. Kd3 Bd4 47. Rf1 Kd5 48. Rf5+ Ke6 49. Rf4 Kd5? 50. Rxd4+ cxd4 51. h6 b2 52. Kc2 Ke6 53. h7 Kf7 54. h8=Q

Ah, ok, missed that. I guess it is a good thing you guys are in charge.
And riga, I think that they can still play 51.Kf8.

ezr611, 51.Kf8 52.Rf4+ Ke7 53.Rh4 Bh8 54.Rg4 looks like it puts them away for the night. There is no escaping us now.

45… c5
45...c5 (71%)
45...b2 (29%)
7 votes cast

45… c5. quoi d'autre!

sur 45…c5 46.Rd3 Rd5 47.Rg4! b2 48.Rc2 et le roi blanc arrête les pions. Autre possibilité: 45… b2 46.h6 c5 47.Rd3 Rf7 48.h7 Fg7 49.Rc2 c4 avec peut-être de meilleures chances ? votre avis ?

46. Kd3
46.Kd3 (88%)
46.Rg5 (9%)
46.h6 (3%)
34 votes cast.

46. Rg5!! Bd4 47. Kd3 Kf6 ( 47. b2 48. Kc2 ) 48. Rg2

I don't agree with Rg5 as they can move b2 for their move and sac their B so they get a Q. Our only response to prevent it would be to move our R back to Rg1 and this loses tempo.

If they play 46.b2, what do we do? I will wait for riga.

46. Rg5 b2 47. Rxe5+ Kf6 ( 47. Kd6 48. Rd5+ Ke6 49. Rd1 ) 48. Rf5+ Kg7 49. Rf1
I thought this position was pretty obvious. After their sac, their king will be in check and we can use that to bring in the rook.

It is going to be a long and tortuous road, but it looks like 46.Kd3 wins.
46. Kd3 Bd4 47. Rg4 Kf7 48. h6 Be5 49. h7 Bg7 50. Rg2 b2 51. Rg1 Be5 52. Kc2 Bg7 53. Rg4 c4 54. Rxc4

Why don't we do 46. Rg5 then 47. Kd3. It still pulls off a win.

46.Rg5? Bd4 47.Kd3 Kf6 48.Rg2 Ke5 49.h6 c4+ 50.Kxc4 would appear to be a draw. I think we are going to need our rook on g4 not g5 to threaten their bishop, and discourage their c-pawn from advancing.
Holding back their c-pawn is obviously the key to the position, so 46.Kd3 puts us on the right track. Then 46.Bd4 47.Rg4 more-or-less forces them to move their king to the corner to try to stop our h-pawn. Once they are there, we can play some tempo moves to force them to advance their b-pawn, and then sneak our king in at c2. I think our rook needs to stay on the g-file.

Riga, I suspect in your line 51. Be5 would actually be better for them if they played Bd4. Either way the move for now is Kd3.

Mike, if you are thinking 51.Bd4 52.Kc2 Bxg1?? greedily snatching up our rook, 53.h8(Q)! would win right away. Otherwise, it just transposes back into my line.

Rg5 and Kd3 both look good to me in my feeble chess head.

I think one of the main traps that we have to watch out for is if they get their king to f7, bishop at e5 and pawn at b2, our king cannot take their c-pawn at c4 without allowing .Bh2 driving our rook away from the g-file, and letting their king in. We also have to avoid b1(Q) sacs where our king is on the same diagonal as their bishop and king because of the threat of discovered check. I think that the best tack is to hold their c-pawn back with our rook, and let our king keep an eye on their b-pawn. It is a very tricky endgame; that's for sure.

Why not Rg6+, after king moves then KxB, Rook/ king mops up then wins?

Kd3 is obvious

46. Rg6+ Bf6 and we don't gain much.

46… Bd4
46...Bd4 (29%)
46...Kd5 (29%)
46...b2 (14%)
46...Kf5 (14%)
46...Kf7 (14%)
7 votes cast.

46…Kd5 47.Rg4 gagne pour les blancs.
46…Bd4 perd aussi, mais il y a quelques pièges, donc c'est peut-être la meilleure chance pratique.

Il y a également la possibilité de jouer: 46…Kf7 avec une suite possible : 47.Rg5 c4+ 47.Kxc4 b2 qu'en pensez-vous ?

46...Kf7 47.h6 gagne assez facilement pour les blancs.

simplechess: mon idée avec 46...Kf7 c'est de pouvoir jouer Bg7 lorsque les blancs joueront h7. en fait ça peut également transposer dans la variante 46…Bd4 : 46...Kf7 47.h6 Bd4 48.h7 Bg7!

47. Rg4
47.Rg4 (90%)
47.Rg5 (7%)
47.Rf1 (3%)
30 votes cast.

rigamagician :
I think 47.Rg4! threatening Rxd4, and preparing to use our rook to hold back their c-pawn may be the only move that secures the win. They will probably have to move their king back towards our h-pawn which we can advance a few steps more, before playing a few tempo moves to put them into zugzwang where they will either have to play .b2 allowing Kc2 or move their king back to f8 when we will be able to force it away from the h-file by checking it with our rook. Note that we cannot allow .c4 in a position where we would have to recapture with our king because of the threat of .b2 and then .Bh2 forcing us to give up control of the g-file and allow their king to get in front of our rook pawn. Rook pawns are notoriously difficult to queen, so we need to keep their king out of its path. We should be able to pull off a win here, if we play this carefully.
47. Rg4 Kf7 48. h6 Be5 49. h7 Bg7 50. Rg2 Kf8 51. Rf2+ Ke7 52. Rf4 Ke6 53. Rh4 Bh8 54. Rg4 Kf5 55. Rg8 b2 56. Kc2 Bd4 57. h8=Q Bxh8 58. Rxh8

ezr611 :
47.Rg4 looks strong in this position.
Why would we take the bishop though because it would just lose us our pawn and lead to a draw.

rigamagician :
ezr611, you asked the same question on move 45, and I replied that 47.Rg4 Kd5? 48.Rxd4+ lets us queen our pawn.

ezr611 :
I know, but if they don't play 47.Kd5. For example, 47.Kf7 or 47.Kf6.

rigamagician :
Like in my diagram, do you mean?

ezr611 :
So we only take the bishop if they play Kd5. Ok. Now I understand.

rigamagician :
Yes, that's right. The diagram is closer to what I expect them to play though.
Incidentally, I recently found out that Team France has an FIDE Master on their vote chess team, Andreas van Elst, a.k.a. simplechess rated 2743. No wonder they have been playing so well.

blackfirestorm666 :

rigamagician :
That's his handle. Have you heard of him? He's actually the highest rated titled player on chess.com! Eep!

blackfirestorm666 :
I'm sure i've heard his name be mentioned in circles I loiter :P

rigamagician :
I'm glad to hear you have your finger on the pulse of the European chess world. We're counting on you to give us the whole inside scoop.

blackfirestorm666 :
You don't get the reputation of being most active member on chess.com without having your ear to the ground :P ;-)

hic2482w :
Wow. I never knew chess.com attracted so many people

47… Kf5
47...Kf5 (69%)
47...b2 (23%)
47...Kd5 (8%)
13 votes cast.

47…Kf5. Notre seul espoir est de rapprocher le roi.
Par contre après 47…b2? 48.Kc2 les blancs gagnent facilement.

alain007 :
Je propose de continuer par : 47…Kf7 et si : 48.h6 Bf6 49.h7 Bg7

simplechess :
47…Kf7 ne marche pas prce que les blancs gagnent car il y a un zugzwang après, par exemple 48.h6 Bf6 49.h7 Bg7 50.Rg2 Kf8 51.Rg1 Kf7 52.Kc4 etc.
Le seul coup qui ne perd pas tout de suite et qui laisse un petit espoir est 47.Kf5 et dans certains variantes on peut esperer d'empêcher le pion blanc d'avancer en h6. Si le pion arrive on h7, c'est fichu.

alain007 :
OK, je n'avais pas vu que nous pouvions tomber en zugzwang sur Kf7.
après: 47... Kf5 48.Rg2 Be5 49.h6. On a peut être une porte de sortie avec :
49...c4+ 50.Kxc4 b2 51.Rg1 b1=Q 52.Rxb1 Kg6 et ça suffit peut-être à arréter l'avancée du pion h .'?!?

breizatao :
47…b2? (40%) => pas bien du tout. Après 48.Kc2 les Noirs sont finis.
47…Kf5 (40%) => je rejoins les avis d'Alain et de Simplechess. 48.Rg8!? Be5 49.h6 c4+!? 50.Kxc4 b2 51.Rg1 b1Q! 52.Rxb1 Kg6 et on a de bonnes chances de faire nulle (en 50 coups!?)
47…Kd5?? (20%) => 48.Rxd4+ et le Roi noir ne peut pas arrêter le pion blanc "h". C'est cuit.

Malheureusement ça ne suffit pas pour annuler parce qu'au mieux on arrive dans une finale tour contre fou (sans pions) qui est perdante quand même car notre roi se trouve dans le "mauvais" coin, c.a.d. celui qui a la couleur du fou. Par exemple 47…Kf5 48.Rg8 Be5 49.h6 c4+ 50.Kxc4 b2 51.Rg1 b1Q 52.Rxb1 Kg6 53.Rh1 Kh7 54.Kd5 Bf4 55.Ke6 etc.
De toute façon, il n'y avait pas mieux et il faudrait encore que les blancs sachent gagner la finale tour contre fou.

48. Rg8
48.Rg8 (94%)
48.Rg2 (3%)
48.Rg6 (3%)
34 votes cast.

Talj :
Rg8 to save the rook and then push the h pawn to h7 with the idea we get bishop for a pawn.

rigamagician :
I agree completely. 48.Rg8 looks like it wins in all lines. I suspect that 47.Kf5? was a mistake leaving their king rather too far from our h-pawn's queening square.
48. Rg8 Kf6 ( 48. Ke5 49. h6 Kd5 50. Rd8+ Ke5 51. Rxd4 cxd4 52. h7 ) ( 48. b2 49. Kc2 Be3 50. Kxb2 ) 49. h6 Kf7 50. h7 b2 51. Kc2 c4 52. h8=Q Bxh8 53. Rxh8

mistermax :
I agree, I think they need to keep their king within striking distance of f7 and g8.

48… Be5
48...Be5 (78%)
48...b2 (22%)
9 votes cast.

breizatao :
48... Be5 (afin de garder le contrôle de la case b8) et si 49.h6 on peut suivre l'idée très intéressante d'Alain avec 49...c4+

simplechess :
D'accord avec 48...Be5. Comme expliqué au coup précedent, ça ne suffit pas pour faire nulle, mais au moins ça oblige les blancs de jouer précis. Tous les autres coups perdent plus vite.

alain007 :
OK pour jouer avec 48...Be5. Je ne sais pas si Rb8 est vraiment une menace car les noirs peuvent répliquer Kg5, l'intérêt en effet est de pouvoir menacer c4+

49. h6
49.h6 (100%)
37 votes cast.

rigamagician :
49.h6 looks good to me. This game is all over except for the crying.
49. h6 c4+ ( 49… Bf6 50. h7 c4+ 51. Kxc4 b2 52. Rg1 b1=Q ) 50. Kxc4 b2 51. Rg1 b1=Q 52. Rxb1 Kg6 53. Rh1 Kh7 54. Kd5 Bf4 55. Ke6 Be3 ( 55. Bxh6 56. Kf7 Kh8 57. Rxh6# ) 56. Kf5 Bd4 57. Rd1

49… c4+
49...c4 (80%)
49...b2 (20%)
10 votes cast.

breizatao :
Je suis toujours partant pour suivre l'idée d'Alain: 49… c4+ 50.Kxc4 b2 51.Rg1 b1Q! 52.Rxb1 Kg6 et on peut essayer de se débrouiller pour obtenir la nulle en 50 coups.

alain007 :
Merci à vous deux ..mais en fait c'est le seul coup il me semble. on verra bien comment les blancs poursuivent après: 49... c4+ 50.Kxc4 b2 51.Rg1 b1Q! 52.Rxb1 Kg6 53.Rh1 Kh7 54.Kd5 Bf4 55.Ke6 Bg5...(et bien sur pas question de prendre le pion h6, attention au mat avec Kf7 suivi de Rxh6 mat)

ferit :
50 coups cela ferait 200 jours ! Cela peut donc se négocier en nulle, ce match est décisif pour la qualification, en cas de nulle, les deux équipes passent, ca vaux donc le coup de s'accrocher.


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